Alphecca

something gives me a funny feeling that even a centuries long global ban on any object or substance capable of possibly harming a human, would fail to stop the sort of violence perpetrated by Trash/scumbags/ lowlife/ loosers.

I also get the feeling that even after a thousand years of continued failure, some people /groups/comentators would still say that the problem was the laws were not written tightly enough or broadly enough.

we have plenty of examples of failure of laws to stop shit. To me the failures in western europe effectively disprove the idea of gun laws affecting criminals (but then I never beleived in gun laws in the first place).

When I start seeing the crooks using either home cooked or exclusively pre gun law models, then (maybe) i'd think the law was having an effect.

As it is, even in the most monitored society the planet has ever had, and one that has had police licencing and seriel no recording of all rifles and pistols for about 86 years and a ban on semi auto rifles for 20 years and on pistols for 9 years... (England & Wales) has run away violent crime and increasing use of handguns AKs etc.

Just to give an example of the lengths that cops in britain will go to to harras the non violent, I left this on a comment to Firehand, I don't think he'll mind too much me leaving it here as well:

A friend's son had been re-newing his shotgun cert, and the cop who came to visit him asked if he had a criminal record, to which he replied "no", and the cop arrested him.

Him and his dad had been prossecuted a couple of years earlier for having a dead sheep that they had not buried (now it would even be illegal to bury it).

Anyway, he's been to court for "giving false information in order to obtain a shotgun certificate"

£500 fine, six month prison sentance suspended for 12 months, and I'm unsure whether it was to help his case along, but he has also surrendered his shotgun certificate.

Effects on violent gun misuse???

but it sends a mesage to the likes of us....

It amazes me how so many cannot understand the simplest of concepts. Bad people are going to do bad things. Passing a million laws will never change that. Duh.
Jamie

I think anyone who can't spell Adrian Fenty's name right, much less calling him "wonderful & brilliant," should be disregarded for the stellar performer she obviously is.

Jeff, if the guns really caused the crime then it doesn't matter if a state is mostly rural or not. The best way to determine whether the guns cause crime as the gun grabbing crowd contends is to look at the crimes per capita. The fact is crime is more prevalent in cities but you don't hear for anyone calling for a ban on them. In fact, those who propose gun control are largely the ones who want to do away with private property rights and force people into an urban lifestyle so as to preserve the wilderness from us nasty humans.

Hi Ron,
can I add: and starve as well as in N. Korea and Zimbabwe, while the corrupt fat bastard at the top of the little human anthill gets fatter, but it's for the greater good.

We're back to the correlations,

most gun owners are White, male, middle class or above, middle aged or older and Rural. (let's call them "knights")

Most armed criminals are black or latino / hispanic, urban, young male and poor. ("kaves")

Correlations, guns (pretty obvious, as its guns we're talking about)and male. I don't buy the differences being the causes (race / colour, poor, urban) where I would want a closer look is a set up that allows people to think that they can get away with "knave" like behaviour.

Answers on the back of a postcard to....

Keith

You hit it on the head--where they think they can get away with it. By virtue of the numbers, the congestion the blending in with the crowd and lack of a "community", crimials thrive in the urban areas, and probably actually congregate there as in a perverted capitalist way.

A 12 year old can buy a long-gun in Virginia?

Funny, last I checked you had to be 18 to buy one, under Federal law - though I suppose it's possible, if very unlikely, that Virginia law allows Virginia resident 12 year olds to buy one with parental presence and consent.

It's not unlikely that Virginia law allows minors to possess such a firearm, again with parental consent... but that doesn't affect DC at all.

Seem to recall reading that many of the early anti-gun laws were to take guns away from African-Americans.[Friend who's "A-A" hates that term; he says call him Black - or an American!] Could someone provide some details?

Hi Oldeforce,
Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Britains' 1921 laws, who's mutated and expanded bastard offspring we're still under, was to dis arm the working class, to prevent a bolshevik revolution. Many comentators have said that at the time Britain had far fewer laws than the states, and it wouldn't surprise me if those US laws were centred on a visible minority.

You've given me an interesting idea, which is to have a look to see what laws britain put on the Irish, who were treated as almost sub human, and distrusted for their religion and frequent rebellions.
Thanks
Keith

DC gun ban advocates love to carp about criminals crossing the bridge over the Potomac to obtain guns in Virginia. What they don't talk about quite so often is how criminals cross the several bridges over Rock Creek within DC that separates the dangerous (East) neighborhoods to prey on citizens in the stable (West) neighborhoods. That's exactly what happened last summer when three thugs crossed the Q Street bridge, slashed the throat of a young man and sexually assaulted his date at gunpoint. They fled using the exact same route. Police, of course, could patrol or simply station officers at those few bridges to nab fleeing suspects -- but they won't. At the community meeting after that murder, the police captain explained that would amount to racial profiling. When I asked him what West side citizens could do to defend themselves in situations like that, he advised never to resist and that wearing a whistle around one's neck at nighttime was the best idea. Days later, a jewelry store was robbed on the main West side street at noon on a Saturday. Guess which way the robbers fled? Type 1339 27th Street, NW, Washington, DC into Google maps and you'll can see the obvious answer.