Alphecca

Yeah, like nobody else ever got birdshot in their ass at a dove hunt.

The story I read blamed it primarily on the victim, who was where he wasn't supposed to be and didn't signal.

Still, it's bad because the shooter gets the perceptual blame, no matter what.

Jeff is right. This incident will provide comic relief for the administration's enemies for weeks to come.

And blaming the victim won't work either. What do you always hear in hunter-ed classes? "Know your target." "Know what's behind your target." And so on.

But it won't be "Dick" Cheney. It'll be "Duck!" Cheney.

I'd lIke to reserve judgment 'till the whole story is revealed.

Showered with buckshot is *NOT* shot with buckshot.

The only 'source I've seen so far is from the BBC.

Jay, the story you read is called SPIN.

Sure is crazy how the shooter gets blamed? What??? KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

Anyway, these two have spent years doing nothing* to help gun rights, and now have done years worth of damage with complete stupidity.

*Ignoring gun rights is not the same as repealing tyranical gun control laws.

The worst part will be listening to all the calls to make it tougher for us non-elites to enjoy hunting, shooting, guns and the like. After all, in the liberal tradition, those that didn't do it, are the first to be punished.

If responsible, famous people can't be relied upon to not be irresponsible the great unwashed must certainly be tethered.

Thank heanvens Cheney took those five deferments to keep out of Vietnam. Talk about "friendly fire!"

Too bad real Americans are going to get mixed up, in the tiny minds of the anti-gun crowd, with Charlie Foxtrots like Cheney. Rich fools who don't know which end the round comes out of should hardly be confused with the great majority of law-abiding, gun owning citizens.

Humm... Look at the bright side. He shot a lawyer...

What I want to know is, how do you even go hunting with the Vice President? Aren't the Secret Service tackling you every ten seconds? "He's got a gun!"

But hey, at least unlike Aaron Burr he didn't kill anybody. The Vice Presidency-- 202 years since a work-related injury!

I used to teach my hunter safety classes that there was no such thing as an excusable accident with a firearm. I still believe it, though I hope my pomposity isn't setting me up for an accident of my own. But notice the use of the word "buckshot". They were shooting quail, as I understand it and unless they REALLY didn't want to eat the things, I doubet they were loaded with buckshot.

Jeff, I had no idea until I read your post that Cheney had done this on purpose. Whoda thunk?
This wasn't just an unfortunate accident the VP would give anything to undo, I guess.

And Straightarrow and Lori, how insightful of you to spot the class-warfare angle on this. That, of course, is at the bottom of 'everything'.

Jeeezzz.

On the plus side, the behavior of the anti-gun zealots - who will be unable to contain their glee - will give the lie to the notion that they give a damn about gun safety or hunting rights.

There's always a bright side.

http://posseincitatus.typepad.com/posse_incitatus/2006/02/hunting_acciden.html

Quail hunting (with a shotgun) is not the same as deer hunting (with a rifle). You go out in a field, out of range of everyone but your party and your dog, and you shoot up into the air. That's fine because unlike a rifle bullet, the birdshot will only go 75 yards or so and then fall harmlessly to the ground; your safety margin is your distance from everyone who isn't with you. If someone comes up behind you and doesn't tell you he's there -- with the sun at his back, no less -- then it's his fault if he gets shot.

Fortunately, it was only a 28-gauge gun with birdshot. If it had been a 12-gauge turkey gun, things would have been much uglier.

Do you really think that the anti-gun left crowd needs this to think badly of hunters or gun owners?

Accidents happen even when you are safe. That is why they call them accidents.

I'm not sure how much bird hunting the writer of this blog has done, but the first rule I learned is that you don't approach the firing line without making sure that EVERYONE is aware you are doing so. And since the only person whose actions you control is YOURS, you wait until it's obvious. Forget that, and bad things happen, whether shooting, or driving, or etc.

Yes, very embarrassing for our side. Unfortunate accident or no, Cheney f***ed up. Know your target and what's behind it. Period. And this isn't one of those situations where the shooter fired at a high bird, and someone hundreds of yards away in another field was caught in a rain of falling pellets. (I've experienced that, on the receiving end. It stings, but it's no big deal. I do, however, as a consequence of that incident, believe in always wearing eye protection when hunting birds.) The account I read, apparently quoting a witness, indicated that the victim was about 30 yards from Cheney. So we're talking direct fire, not indirect fire. Cheney's just fortunate the guy wasn't 15 yards closer.

It's Cheney's fault, plain and simple. If you are firing a weapon, it's your responsibility to know what you are shooting at. That said, this happens all the time. Quail hunting is particulary difficult because the birds tend to level off low at about head level.

I know a number of quail hunters, and because of the nature of quail hunting these kinds of accidents are not at all uncommon. The birds fly unpredictably at low levels, the terrain is often brushy, etc.

You simply cannot use the rifleman's drill of carefully examining everything in your line of fire, or you will never shoot. That is why bird hunters use standard formations and preset zones of fire. Sounds like the victim here probably walked into Cheney's zone.

The saving grace is that the shot used in hunting quail is quite small and people tend to use open chokes and even smaller gauge guns, all of which makes the injuries relatively minor.

Sure as shootin', that image with Wayne LaPierre was part of our local ABC affiliate's report last night. And one of our local liberal news anchors, Larry Hatteberg, kept referring to the VP as the "triggerman".

"Statement from Vice President Cheney Concerning Saturday's Incident"

We live in a dangerous world.

A world full of threats, threats to our American way of life.

So, while out hunting the other day, I decided not to take any chances.

When I saw movement in the brushes to my left, a number of things were running through my mind.

Sagebrush country is replete with numerous, dangerous critters – rattlesnakes, coyotes, pit bulls off the leash. So I took off the safety.

Also, I knew a number of dangerous men had recently crossed the nearby border from Mexico. Illegal aliens. Many of them hardened criminals. Some of them, most likely, terrorists. From parts of the world that would do us harm.

So, in my capacity as Second-in-Command to the Commander-in-Chief, I patched into our armed forces satellite network, and to Google Earth. Had a survey done of the terrain.

A real-time communications download informed us the movement in the bushes was not that of an animal, but of a person. The data also told us this unidentified person was in possession of a firearm. Thermal imaging revealed the weapon was 'warm', that is, it had recently been discharged. And that it might soon be again.

The eye-in-the-sky detected chemical residue on the gun barrel; we feared a chemical weapons attack was imminent.

Let me emphasize that everyone else in our party had seemingly been accounted for. According to our Intelligence, no other hunting parties were in the vicinity. The Secret Service had a security perimeter extending out for hundreds of meters which had detected no other threat. We had to assume the unidentified man with a gun was an unwanted interloper, with evil intent.

Taking a deep breath, I tried to calm my racing pulse. I asked my doctor, as a precaution, to take the cover off the defibrillator. I asked the ambulance driver to turn on the motor engine. Not for my sake, but for the sake of the apparent attacker, in case he survived the coming encounter, or in the event collateral damage caused some innocent person to receive a wound, and needed hospital care.

I silently cursed the girly-man rules of the hunting range that had put a 28-gauge in my hands, instead of a more lethal 12-gauge shotgun. I sighed, knowing the chamber contained only birdshot, not deadly lead. I was reminded of the thoughtless cuts made in the 1990s to our armed forces, leaving our men in harm's way without adequate means of protecting themselves. Lock and load.

Taking careful aim, my hands steady, I squeezed the trigger. I am pleased to report that my many years on practice ranges and hunting preserves paid off big-time. I hit the target with the first shot, an incapacitating blow running from the eyes to the chest.

After a time, I was informed that my instrument had discharged into the person of my friend and hunting partner, Mr. Unwhittington. For this I have profound regret.

For my companion had broken every rule of the hunt by not identifying himself, and by placing himself in the line of fire. Hopefully, this will be a lesson he'll never forget. For 24 hours I was in such a funk that I forgot to tell the press about the incident.

Still, I must admit, mistakes were made. As we say in Washington, if anyone takes offense at my actions, then I apologize.

But to re-emphasize, the world is a dangerous place. Sometimes we must take pre-emptive measures against an emerging threat. Even when we can't be completely sure of our intelligence.

Better safe than sorry.

Copyright (C) February 2006 by Edward P. Moser

Does this mean that the Cheney/Scalia hunting trip wasn't a conflict-of-interest, as many have claimed, bu rather a narrow escape for Scalia.

I tell all my anti-gun friends this: "My sports are guns and motorcycles. Neither suffer fools lightly. They punish mistakes with death and disfigurement. If you aren't willing to accept that part of the bargain, go play golf. The worst that can happen is that you bogey the hole."

well at least he didn't leave the man to die and run home and call his lawyer and not tell anyone about it.

"The worst that can happen is that you bogey the hole."

Or, in my case, that's the *best* that can happen.

As a non-hunter who spends a lot of time in the woods, I'm never partial to the "its the fault of the guy I shot" defense. But I'm willing to be open minded, so for those defending Cheney, here are some questions.

1. If you know someone from your party is not accounted for, shouldn't that affect your decision to turn 180 and fire at head level.

2. If you are the person who is catching up to the hunting party, shouldn't you approach them from behind. Walking in front of them seems pretty dangerous.

3. If you are catching up to your hunting buddies who are preparing to shoot another group of quail, should you approach them quietly, or yell to them? As I said, I'm not a hunter, but it seems like the yelling companion would likely be disinvited to the next trip (unless its his property you like to hunt on).

4. Is it truly common to get shot in the face from 30 yards in quail hunting?

It is not uncommon to get "peppered," as we call it, while hunting upland game birds. The idea, though, is to avoid it. Still, unlike Adlai Stevenson's unfortunate gun accident, nobody died in this one and, in fact, they usually don't in upland game accidents. Most of the time, you are coming up on the dogs and there is usually a lot of talking going on about who is going to take which avenue of fire when the covey breaks.

PJ: 1. The person (Whittington) wasn't "unaccounted for". He was not where he was expected to be, and not doing what he was expected to be doing. That is a very big NO NO.

2. He probably did approach from the rear or a side. Quail fly quickly and often directly across the hunter's field of view, which means that the hunter will have to pivot and fire quickly. So you just don't approach without announcing yourself.

3. Quail aren't going to flush at a quiet voice. They already know you're there. They're just hoping you don't know where THEY are. Of course, the best bet would be for a straggler to wait for the hunters to come out of the field, and re-join them then.

It's Cheney's fault, plain and simple. If you are firing a weapon, it's your responsibility to know what you are shooting at. That said, this happens all the time.

Wow, remind me not to go hunting in your neighborhood!

Here in Texas however, it happened 29 times last year out of a total of 1,091,178 licensed hunters.

Let's just say the VP should consider a safety course.

One last thought. I've bird hunt in South Texas a lot as well as Mexico and Argentina.

And I have this to ask of all the commenters here claiming this is a common occurance.

Huh? This happens to your group all the time??

Time to get a new group of hunting buddies then, unless of course you are the one always peppering your fellow hunters in which case it may be time to find a new hobby.

After hunting in groups that have expended literally hundreds of thousands of rounds over the years without a single incident I have to say that either my friends and I are either incredibly lucky, or minimally concerned about idiots joining our group!

It's amazing how everyone is so willing to jump to a conclusion without knowing the facts.

I know coastal TX is fairly flat, but consider this:

As he comes back up to Cheney and the other hunter, Whittington fails to announce his presence as he should. Cheney and the other hunter still think Whittington is safely behind them at a safe distance, out of the line of fire.

Unfortunately, as Whittington comes back to the group, he comes up somewhat to the side of Cheney and the other guy, and there's a slight dip in the land between them. Add to this, the possibility that Whittington's head is obscured by a palmetto bush or a scrub oak, or some other tree or vegetation.

Quail are flushed, and Cheney takes a bead .... he looks as he SHOULD before firing .... but because of the lay of the land and / or the vegetation obscuring Whittington, Cheney thinks he's all clear and shoots.

Unfortunately, because of Whittington's failure to announce his presence, no one knew he was in the line of fire.

Who's fault is this? Did Cheney use due dilligence before firing?

Just a hypothesis. But why don't we all take a deep breath and find out what ACTUALLY happened, before automatically assuming Cheney erred and was careless.

As far as the White House or Cheney's office failing to notify the press within a "reasonable" time after the incident, well ... that's another matter entirely.

target fixation is not an excuse to auger in. It is the reason it happens, but it is not an excuse. The same with shooting your hunting buddies. Whittington contributed to the conditions, but only Cheney fired the shot.

So, for all those railing that it boils down to Cheney's fault because he pulled the trigger...

If you are target practicing and a kid runs in front of you while shooting, it's your fault, right?

If you are backing up your car and run over a bum that fell asleep under your rear bumper, that's your fault, right?

Group hunting is a risky endeavour. If you participate and don't play by the rules, you are very likely to get hurt. If you don't follow the rules, the fault lies with solely with you.

I too would advise that we get the real facts before we condem. I will not argue that a shooter should make sure of his target and whats behind it before he fires but consider this. When shooting at a fast moving bird like a quail, you might have 1 sec to choose your bird and fire. You will be so focused on the bird that you probably will not see anything but the bird. There's pleanty of blame to go around here. The coordinator of the hunt has the responsibilty to account for all the hunters positions and lay down the ground rules, ie, shooting only in a 180 degree arc. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jeff:
Getting peppered once in a while is part of quail hunting. If you do it often enough, that is. Not desirable, but not all that rare - no matter how safety-conscious you are.

If he had been a senator from Massachusetts he would have left the attorney on the ground bleeding while he met with "his people" to decide what to do next.

"Class warfare" has become one of those catch-all right-wing charges that gets lobbed at everybody who acknowledges that money buys some things it shouldn't. Contrary to the standard stereotype, conservatives aren't always the ones waving the mazuma around and trying to buy the influence. Conservatives would be a little smarter if they didn't go to great pains to point this out, then turn right around and contradict themselves by raising the "class warfare" bogeybear again.

It's nice to think that movie stars and rock singers who speak out against other people owning guns, while at the same time having entire arsenals and private armies of their own, are simply politically correct, bleeding heart liberals, and just shut your brain off after that. The fact of the matter is that Rosie, Barbra and their crowd lead the charge to yank away the guns of many ordinary Americans, while at the same time hanging onto their own, not because they are "liberals," but because they are rich.

We can't let the truth become so odious to us that when it spoils the taste of our own, particular favorite flavor of kool-aid, we simply spit it out.

Quail hunting can be dangerous. Someone asked is this "common" - well that sorta depends. As an accident the vast vast majority will be from this. Though most people will hunt thier entire lifes without an accident.

Generally it's why most bird hunters will not hunt with people they do not trust and in smaller groups. Each person has a lane they shoot birds in and those lanes do not overlap and they are standard to keep the other hunters safe. When the birds flush you have less than a second or two to shoulder the gun, take safety off, aim, and decide to fire. It's why the rest should be mechanical and the rules are the way they are.

It's generally accepted that if you shoot outside of your lane and hurt someone it's the shooters fault, in many states it is negligable to the extent of punishable by law. If someone moves into your killing lane note what the lane is called and figure the rest. This set of responsibility is also in place to try and enforce the safety standards of bird hunting. Just as if someone stuck thier head up from a manhole during rush hour traffic (say a construction worker didn't put out his cones), even though people should be watching where they are driving it's not typically going to be the drivers fault you got killed - that type of rule is there for a reason.

If you teach you hunter safety class differently that's your option. In Tennessee the hunters education book mandates you teach essentially what I wrote above and you aren't really doing anyone favors by teaching them how to improperly hunt. Almost every other hunter they may go with will follow what I wrote and being the different guy tends to be very unsafe in this type of bird hunting.

From all reports this guy just wasn't paying attention. According to Cheney, witnesses, and now the guy he was where he was not supposed to be. Though I think it's been more of an amusing thing than a real scandel. Nor do I think it will hurt the pro-gun or pro-hunting groups - it was already accepted that accident happen from time to time.

Obviously this whole scenario was set-up by the liberal media, who want to take our guns away. People get shot on hunting trips every day, no big deal, everyone understands the risk.

Regardless of who was at fault, it sucks when someone gets shot. What sucks worse is the instant cover up.
Cheney's bad karma has got to catch up with him eventually.

First, It was an illegal hunt. You think that Dick would have spent the mesely seven bucks for the right to hunt like us real, hard working Texans have to do. Secondly, why the delay to report the accident? Thirdly, why did his secret service detail not allow law enforcement personnel to question him? If you ask me it is because that fool was DRUNK!!! My advice would be to purcase the required licences and not drink.

I would rather go hunting with Cheney than go for a ride with Ted Kennedy

Illegal hunt? OK. So what? Ever driven to the store to get a gallon of milk without your driver's license? Ever driven over the speed limit? Ever double parked to drop something off downtown. Let he who is without sin...oh screw it, you've already condemned the guy.

Just a comment from the far left :) I don't own a gun but have shot one, have never been hunting either but am totally committed to the right to bear arms because I believe our forefathers wanted us to always be able to protect ourselves from invasion or even our government, if necessary. (No, I do not have an armed fortress in the middle of nowhere surrounded by munitions and food/water for 3 years.) I believe that a solid economy has more to do with safety on the streets than gun control. And if hunting is your thing, then more power to you. I would fight anyone who tried to take it from you. And while that may not be the standard response from the DNC, I do know a lot of "lefties" who agree with me. And I do believe the Cheney incident was an accident.

I'm a moderate leftist. I don't eat meat or kill animals. I believe God will punish you all by giving you mad-cow/wasting disease as well as bird flu and mercury poisoning. Would Jesus be a hunter had he lived today? Does Jesus want you to own a gun? None of you are Christ-like.

Remarks to the effect that "it's the shooter's responsibility to know his target and what's behind it," etc., are all perfectly appropriate when talking about hunting with a rifle, which is by its nature a very deliberate kind of shooting. But any bird hunter knows that the shooter's concentration must be 100% on the bird which is usually traveling at a high rate of speed, may only be within range for a second or less, and has to be led--that is, the charge must be fired not directly at the bird but at the point in space where the bird will be when the shot gets there. This is what makes shotgunning entirely different from rifle shooting, and most of the recent commentators on the Cheney hunting accident don't seem to understand this.

In some kinds of bird hunting, e.g. pheasant and waterfowl, "what's behind the target" is usually just empty air. But quail tend to fly very low (hence the old golfer's expression "quail high" for a low, flat drive), which substantially changes the case. Since the hunter typically has to fire while swinging the gun so that it is always pointing ahead of the bird, it is just asking for trouble if a companion approaches from the side or behind without clearing announcing his presence.

A roughly analogous situation in baseball would be if someone strolled into the arc of the batter's swing while the latter was concentrating on the approaching ball. Whose fault would that injury be?

I've hunted doves, ducks, pheasants, ruff grouse, wood cocks, and rabbits in many different types of terrain from heavy woods to corn fields to wild chest thickets. This has been with groups up to 6 hunters and two to three dogs not onces have anyone of us been hit by a single pellet. When your hunting and one in your group shots a game annd falls behind you, you wait for them to catch up before you proceed. You always know where the guy next to you is located at. You always have control over your gun.
If I every got hit or my dogs by someone there would be hell to pay no matter who it is.

I have a few questions.

Did any birds die as a result of Cheney's marksmanship, or was it basically a "sound" shot?

If I was to go hunting without the proper stamp or permit, would I be poaching?

Would it be as easy to say "accidents happen" and "it is common to get peppered" while upland game hunting" if the roles were reversed and the lawyer "peppered" Cheney?

Probably the secret service guys would have mowedthe poor guy down, and the White House would spin it as a viscious attack by a crazed 78 year old man.

"If you are target practicing and a kid runs in front of you while shooting, it's your fault, right?"

What kind of shooter would still fire knowing kids are running around the range?

"If you are backing up your car and run over a bum that fell asleep under your rear bumper, that's your fault, right?"

If you didn't check what's behind your car, yes.

"If you don't follow the rules, the fault lies with solely with you."

The rules also states the shooter should know what he's shooting at. Just because 'it's difficult to do that' doesn't make it an excuse.

Oh good, a moonbat. I normally stay out of the comments but uh, Leftboy: Jesus ate meat at the last supper. In fact, he taught people to fish during his ministry. But thanks for wishing disease on all of us. You've spoken like a true leftist.