Alphecca

What's a draw string? Sounds like that's the culprit and not the glock. Assuming the officer didn't have his booger hook on the bang switch, of course.

Uncle, I think it's the do-hickey to tighten the bottom of the officer's windbreaker. It got caught in the trigger guard when holstering the pistol. I think this is one of those few times where "accidental discharge" is more accurate than "negligent discharge."

One little word in defense of glocks... I would imagine that even a heavy double-action trigger on a revolver (or a DA/SA pistol) wouldn't have been much less likely to go off. 12 pounds is pretty heavy for a trigger finger to pull while trying to be accurate, but if you're pulling off you're jacket, 12 pounds isn't much force when your whole arm is pulling.

Lesson learned: be careful when holstering your pistol. Regardless of make/model.

I'm no huge fan of glocks (they work, I can see why other people like them, (other than the ugliness) but they're not for me), but I can't, in good conscience, call this a "glock" problem.

I did something similar with my Glock 21; while reholstering, the snap on the retention snap caught and pulled the trigger. Round hit the ground about 6 inches from my foot. I sold that pistol quick! I will no longer purchase a pistol that does not have, at minimum, a manual safety or a decocker with exposed hammer. Glocks are nice and all, but the error factor is far too high. Give me a safety and an exposed hammer any day. My foot is even more adamant.

>>>We've read time and again about cops who shot themselves (usually in the foot) when drawing their Glock service pistols.

Slight nit to pick: AFAIK, most of these events have happened when reholstering, not when drawing, in circumstances similiar to those you mention here.

IMO, the relatively light trigger is only part of the problem. The _other_ part of the problem that rarely gets mention is the lack of an external hammer.

Correct handling technique of a sidearm with a hammer involves placing the thumb on the hammer when holstering. With an SA/DA or DAO pistol, the thumb goes on the hammer to press it into place, and with a true SA cocked and locked pistol like a 1911, the thumb goes between the hammer and the frame. Both techniques give the operator the ability to detect that something has obstructed the trigger, and the last chance opportunity to _stop_ what he is doing and remediate the situation.

This has saved my literal ass, on one occassion.

What do you all think of the Springfield XD as a compromise for those who don't like DA/SA and/or want a DAO without an exposed hammer? The XD has a grip similar to the 1911 and while reholstering I tend to remove my hand from it and put my thumb on the back of the slide (to keep it in place while sliding it into an IWB holster). Just a thought.

Geek, I'm not sure an external hammer would have helped here, but your point is well taken. But I could easily imagine a scenario where the guy did everything right... finger off trigger, removing the holster without pointing it at himself, then the drawstring tugs, pulling the muzzle toward his butt, then discharges.

Now, I'm sure there's a way that could happen with a DA/SA pistol, or a cocked-and-locked SAO, but I can't think of it without a "mechanical failure" as well. I'm sure there's got to be a Glock lover reading this who will explain why no (external) safety is better... But the best I can think of is simplicity, pull trigger on live round, it goes bang. There's no safety to go have on when you want it off. But, that problem is solved by practice. So, it's an advantage for a beginner. But, (correct me if I'm wrong) disassembling a glock involves pulling the trigger. So, a beginner (or anyone careless enough) who doesn't check the chamber can fire it that way. So, it's good for a beginner, but not good for a beginner? Glock guys, I know there's got to be a good reason... what is it? Or is it just a tradeoff--you like the other attributes enough that you let this one slide? (I like my 1911, but one tradeoff is that it doesn't have the capacity of a double-stack, and it's heavy, etc.) I'm actually asking this question to get an answer, not to badmouth a pretty successful firearm.

I guess they don't teach cops how to sweep their gun hand between their body and the holster after re-holstering. It is something I learned and still do as a relfexive action. That would have caught the snag and saved him from a round in the ass.

This has happened to others long before Glocks were invented....the result of not paying attention when holstering your weapon. I believe that I first heard of this from Mas, but I may be wrong. Some shooters go as far as to remove drawstrings from jackets just because of these phenomena.

You have to remember that a safety is a mechanical device prone to failure so expect it to function, but don't count on it.

The best argument for a safety even on DA gun is this:

A policy study found, it takes on average, 17 seconds for someone not familiar with a gun to find the safety, work it and then shoot you with your own gun. It only takes 1.5 seconds for someone to take a revolver or DA gun with no safety to shoot you.

The safety however only adds .5 seconds to the draw/shoot time for the officer. So the downside of an extra .5 seconds is offset by the extra time the BG has to take to find your safety and disengage. Time you can use to pull your backup (you do carry a backup, don’t you?) and save your life.

As for me I carry a Taurus PT-145 Mil Pro .45 it is DA but has the safety....I love it and you can't beat 10 + 1 in the pipe in a gun that is only 6 inches overall length.

Good luck and good shooting.

I have read, but don't know if it's true, that the Glock safety was specifically designed to reduce transition training for police departments replacing revolvers. As Jeff notes above, they didn't have external safeties either.

I'd add that an external safety/decocking lever is not foolproof (not that anyone here is claiming otherwise). The Beretta M9 (military version of the 92 series) is noted for going off safe when drawn from the M12 (issue) holster. Friction on the slide from the holster and cover is easily enough to flip the lever forward.

In short, real men can handle a glock.
If your not a real man then don't buy one.
Some things in life are best handled by real men.
Its that simple.

"But, (correct me if I'm wrong) disassembling a glock involves pulling the trigger. So, a beginner (or anyone careless enough) who doesn't check the chamber can fire it that way. "

You are correct and I know a gentleman who nearly lost a finger to that. It was the day before Thanskgiving, family was over (or he was visiting, I forget which). He'd been to the range with a relative in the morning where they'd used his guns and he was in a hurry to get them cleaned up and put away before the grandchildren arrived. Knew one gun was 'live' so he dropped the mag and cleared the chamber. Knew the other gun wasn't so he just dropped the mag and pulled the trigger while reaching for a brush. *Just* missed taking off the middle finger of his left hand. Fortunately that, and the inside of an exterior wall, were the only casualties. He's quite a good sport about it but he didn't put up any fight when his wife wanted him to sell his Glocks.

Not that it's an issue in this case - this was a failure to pay attention when holstering that could have happened with just about any pistol. But you're right in that most of the ND's we hear about with Glocks come at cleaning time. XD's, unfortunately, share this same "pull the trigger to take down" design.

Correct handling technique of a sidearm with a hammer involves placing the thumb on the hammer when holstering. With an SA/DA or DAO pistol, the thumb goes on the hammer to press it into place, and with a true SA cocked and locked pistol like a 1911, the thumb goes between the hammer and the frame. Both techniques give the operator the ability to detect that something has obstructed the trigger, and the last chance opportunity to _stop_ what he is doing and remediate the situation.

That's something that I'd learned, but I found that at least one police force teaches that this is *never* to be done. In their training, you *always* keep your hand on the grip and away from the trigger. I never did ask the officer in question (one of this department's firmearms instructors, by the way) exactly why they did it, but I have speculated that it's about control and retention. They train that you should always be in *firm* control of the gun. They also exclusively use .40cal Glocks.

I have a Glock 19, and from my experience with it, you'd have to have a holster that was carefully fitted if you wanted to reholster it without holding the slide in place. With one of my tighter fitting leather ones, it always threatened to rack the slide and eject the round (or jam the gun) when I holstered it. If you're using Kydex or similar holsters, it's not a problem.

I have a Glock and carry concealed in a soft Uncle Mike's inside the hip holster. I have never had occasion to draw my Glock while carrying. However, in the few instances where I have re-holstered while the holster is inside my waistband, I manually and visually check to make sure that the trigger does not get caught as I SLOWLY re-holster. The preferable method is to remove the holster, replace the gun, and then place the holster inside the hip. Let there be no doubt that a Glock requires more care in handling, especially when re-holstering.

XD's do require you to pull the trigger for takedown. However, they require you to lock the slide back first in order to move the takedown lever up. It forces you, in essence, to clear the weapon to break it down.

Thank you for the heads up.

For Steve S., I hope your words never come back to haunt you or anyone else. I think it's less about being a "real" man and more about being a disciplined man. You have to be properly trained, properly conditioned and properly disciplined to handle any firearm, Glock or otherwise. Only the lucky get a second chance after a mistake with a firearm.

For me, it's all about risk management. I manage my risk by not carrying a firearm with a lighter trigger / no-safety combo. I do not begrudge those that choose differently than me. Some would look down on what I carry ... a J-Frame and a 1911.

I misread the posting and just now realized that it was Terry who posted the "real men" comment. This emaphasizes my point that all humans make mistakes, including "real" men.

"discharged the weapon with the firearm in the holster"
But looking at the actual police photo, I don't see any damage or bullet hole in the holster.