Alphecca is a member of "the lunatic fringe of the US right"
--Guardian (UK) 6/26/06

*******************


Yeah, so?


Even my cats
have guns!

serbu_sidebar_125.jpg
Me with Serbu BFG-50

Email me at:
gunnut -at-
alphecca -dot- com

Check it out:

My group sci-fi blog novel:

Colony: Alchibah






Featured in
Outdoor Life Magazine:

outdoor_small.jpg

Yes, I coined the term
"stupid-fucking-computer"

Alphecca gets noticed!
Check out these
GLOWING REVIEWS
I've just made up:

"Sparkles like pewter"
-- Collector's World

"Wonderful, terrific, splendid"
-- Roget's Thesaurus

"Really good"
-- Stereo World, Gun World,
Car World, Travel World,
Computer World, Roger Ebert,
Martha Stewart, Barney, etc...

"I am not an idiut"
--Barbra Streisand



Proud to be an American
US Flag
standing with Israel
Flag of Israel

PageSpinner

...but all errors and sloppy code should be blamed on me...

All non-credited writings
and photos on
Alphecca.com are
(C) Copyright
2002-2008
by Jeff Soyer
All rights reserved.



June 04, 2005

Bullet Registration in CA

Where else, right? From the LA Times:


California lawmakers Thursday voted to require weapons manufacturers to ensure that all bullets and cartridges are branded with distinctive serial numbers.

Contained in two measures that are intended to help law enforcement solve cases, the proposal would be unique among states if approved by the Legislature and signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The gun industry said the proposals were impractical and would force weapons makers to either write off the huge California market or adopt practices that would greatly increase the cost of their wares.

[...]

One of the proposals, from state Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer and approved in the Senate, 21-14, would require manufacturers, starting in 2007, to stamp bullets sold in California with a identification number that police could trace to the store where the ammunition was sold.

"We can put individualized serial numbers on cartons of yogurt, on almost everything in society, with very little additional cost," said Sen. Joe Dunn (D-Santa Ana), who sponsored the measure, SB 357.

The second measure, which was approved by the Assembly, 41-37, would mandate that all new semiautomatic handguns, starting in 2007, include technology that would stamp a distinguishing serial number onto a cartridge when it is fired. Assemblyman Paul Koretz (D-West Hollywood), the sponsor of AB 352, said the markings "won't always lead to the criminal, but it will create leads" for police.

Though Koretz said no law enforcement groups opposed his bill, Republican lawmakers criticized it strongly. Assemblyman Todd Spitzer (R-Orange) argued that criminals could plant spent shell casings to mislead investigators.

"I'm incredibly concerned about the ability to frame innocent people through the use of this technique," Spitzer said.

U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-El Cajon), chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, wrote to Schwarzenegger last month that he was "strongly opposed to this proposal because of the harmful impact it will have on the manufacturers of ammunition used by our nation's armed services and law enforcement agencies."

Weapons weren't the only subject of clashes on the issue of special markings Thursday. The Senate approved, 22 to 16, the latest incarnation of legislation to allow some illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses.


First of all, requiring all ammo makers to re-tool their manufacturing facilities to stamp or etch (presumably with a laser) a numbering i.d. would be rather costly. They certainly don't want to do it for all ammo sold throughout the country (which would risk angering the rest of us) so there is a good possibility that they would stop selling ammo in California.

Secondly, this would increase the cost of ammunition for everyone, from weekend plinkers to Olympic hopefulls.

Thirdly, isn't this really just another ploy leading towards registration?

Fourth, remember last year when California lawmakers wanted to require gun stores to register all ammo purchases? Here's a quote from the details about that bill:


The bill requires that "all vendors of ammunition maintain specified information" on ammunition buyers, including: (1) the date of the transaction; (2) the name, address, and date of birth of the buyer; (3) the buyer's driver's license or other identification number and the state in which it was issued; (4) the brand, type, and amount of ammunition bought or transferred; (5) the buyer's signature; (6) the name of the salesperson who processed the transaction; and (7) "the vendor shall also at the time of purchase or transfer obtain the right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee."

The information would have to be recorded on a special form provided by the State Department of Justice.

And what if a gun and its ammo is stolen? That's how the mutants in our society usually get their guns. And what if some ammo makers do decide to engrave bullets, but only for California? Sort of like the cars some automakers build only for there to meet stricter emission controls? Would the criminals (and the law-abiding -- I wouldn't blame them!) simply drive to a neighboring state to pick-up non-etched bullets?

Let's examine a mechanical aspect of this, too. I suppose bullet manufacturers could stamp something on the shell, as they do their trademark on the back, but to have an individual serial number requires a lot of digits -- considering how much ammo is sold. Not much space for it unless it was etched with a laser, probably on the side of the cartridge. But that could interfere with the normal feeding from the magazine of a firearm and possibly cause jams. Are California police willing to tolerate a greater incidence of gun jams when chasing armed suspects?

Further, in a premeditated murder, the thug could collect his shells, or use a revolver which doesn't spit them out the ejector port.

I suspect that the misguided lawmakers really want the bullets themselves etched as well, which would lead to a much greater likelihood of malfunction in a firearm as the cartridge is fed into the breech. Again, it is the cops that should be protesting this since they are the ones whose lives would be jeapardized the most. Or would California police agencies be allowed ("government by the people") to purchase un-marked ammo?

I suppose that i.d. numbers could be filed or sanded-off as well.

But this brings up another "slippery slope" problem since there are millions of firearms currently in the hands of California residents. Will all those guns NOT able to "imprint" a unique serial number on the bullets they fire, would they have to be confiscated to make such a draconian scheme work? Remember, this is the state that passed it's own "assault weapons" ban and then required gun owners to turn in these legally purchased and now -- suddenly illegal -- rifles. And don't tell me they would never do that because THEY DID. And we also saw such actions in England, Australia, Germany, and now it's happening in Canada. History DOES repeat itself and I put nothing past the gun-grabbing left in California.

All of this is really just one more attempt to burden and register the law-abiding gun owner. The criminals ignore all of this. The gang-bangers could care less about who they kill, with what they kill, and frankly, with getting caught; the revolving door justice-system puts little fear in them.

Now, with all this concern over fighting crime, did you notice the last paragraph of my quote from the LA Times? It wasn't a mistake. It was irony. Let me repeat it and include the next paragraph:


Weapons weren't the only subject of clashes on the issue of special markings Thursday. The Senate approved, 22 to 16, the latest incarnation of legislation to allow some illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses.

The proposed licenses would be specially designated so they could not be used as a broader form of identification. Democrats last year rejected the idea of a second tier of licenses, but the governor vetoed the proposal they passed, which would have allowed undocumented residents to have regular driver's licenses.


So with all of this worry about crime, Democratic lawmakers in California have decided that "illegal immigrants" should be able to obtain a driver's license! Oh, excuse me! "Undocumented residents!" For those who don't know, the bill Democrats rejected last year (for a differentiated license for these illegals) would have marked them as, uh, "undocumented", and that --their reasoning-- would have put the illegals at a disadvantage. So they scuttled it.

So they want to wink-and-nod at illegal immigrants -- folks who are breaking the law -- but they want to make it as expensive and difficult as possible for legal citizens to practice their Second Amendment rights. Pardon my french but is California fucked-up or what?

Posted by Jeff Soyer at June 4, 2005 07:08 AM
Comments

Your French is pardoned.

And YES.

They must have heard someone describe Massachusetts as the state withthe worst gun control laws in the country, and thought that second place just wasn't good enough.

If Arnold signs this piece of rubbish, he's toast.

Posted by: Bruce at June 4, 2005 02:05 PM

As for registering Ammo purchases, we've had THAT here in NJ for decades. With the exception of the thumbprint, each purchase is logged and signed-for as you describe; with the exception I think of .22rimfire-ammo. And I never heard of all that paperwork ever being the crucial key to solving any crime.

We also have to have a state permit to possess or even handle firearms, and an separate individual permit for each handgun purchase good for 60-days. All of which have to be applied for to the local police, and approved by them and the State Police.

Then we have to go through the "Brady" firearms purchase phone call-procedure during 'normal business hours and not Sunday' to actually purchase a firearm; despite already being background-checked and reviewed by our local police and the NJ State Police.

Posted by: Ted B. at June 4, 2005 09:18 PM

In states that require registration of ammo purchases you would have to add the recording of serial numbers for the boxes bought by each purchaser. Each box would have to have a separate serial number, in order to be able to trace a particular case/bullet to a particular purchaser.

This means that the ammo makers would have to mark each case/bullet as it was being packaged, and change the number when the next package amount came up. Presumably, the numbers on the ammo and boxes would have to match. I've never been through an ammo factory, but I'll bet the rounds are produced in bulk and packaged in 20/50/100 round lots in the next box that comes down the line. I'm sure that adding engraving, sorting and labelling processes is technically possible, but would be, in the elegant words of software engineers, nontrivial.

Then think of how you would act if you were shooting such ammo. It could be potentially disastrous to leave any empty cases lying around with "your" ID on them, so rational action would include collecting EVERY spent case that you fired. (I try to do this now, as I reload most of my ammo, but if I miss a few cases I don't sweat it. Under the new regime, I'd sweat it - a lot.) And even if you collect all the cases, where do you pitch them? Certainly not loose in your garbage can at home, where they might be observed and retrieved at several stages enroute to the landfill. Maybe you pack them up in an empty Wheaties box and hope it doesn't come open before it gets buried. And still live in fear (can you prove where you were Tuesday night three weeks ago?)

Hasn't Maryland had a "case fingerprinting" law in effect for a number of years? Where new guns sold have to have a fired case registered with the state, so they can match it to cases found at a crime scene? If I remember correctly, this system has NEVER produced even a lead in solving a crime, let alone a conviction.

Ah well, CA was a crazy place when I was stationed out there 35 years ago, and doesn't seem to have gotten any better.

Posted by: Kip at June 4, 2005 11:13 PM

As a Californian who's been sweating this for weeks, allow me to clarify a few things.

The Koretz bill, which mandates that semi-autos stamp the casing when it's fired, won't actually ban the pre-2007 guns. It will only decertify them all for sale. You can own the weapon, fire it at the range, and transport it around the state. You just can't buy them anymore or sell your pre-ban guns. It's not too bad for me, since I'll get my semi-auto collection together before it happens. It's bad for the future generations. Also, the police are exempt.

With the Ammo Serialization bill, however, we're ALL screwed. One company can apparently do it, and they'll quickly achieve a monopoly. And while I suppose we could pay an outrageous amount for a small quantity of defensive ammo, it will destroy range practice.

The good news on both of these is that Schwarzenegger hates these guys and likes to shove back at them. He signed the .50 ban because it's a small-effect, high-profile issue. These bills have less national attention, affect far more people, and in the case of the serialization bill, it won't even exempt cops. (So it will be freakishly expensive for the state.)

I've already written him, and emailed the entire legislature, but I have a small feeling that Arnie will veto them. He's vetoed every anti-gun bill other than the .50 ban, so I think there's hope.

Posted by: Scott Ganz at June 5, 2005 12:06 AM

Before implementation it would be nice to prove that it works. Would they be willing to try a demonstration program?

It would have two sections for demonstration purposes, all law enforcement officials and a select group of non-law enforcement offcials, namely California elected officials and body guards.

The law enforcement offcials are obvious. There are a lot of them. There is already an administrative process in place for weapons and ammunition. All or at least most shootings are investigated. The bullet and case markings would be helpful in officer involved shootings.

The California elected officials and body guards would add a civilian component that are motivated to comply with the regulations.

Both groups would be subject to unannounced compliance and functional testing. Compliance could just be inspection of all weapons and ammunition the inspected parties have with them. Testing would include normal qualification and unannounced testing where the weapon is taken as is and tested for functionality and compliance in addition to lab testing. Weapons would need to demonstrate the same long-term reliability and accuracy as non-compliant weapons and ammunition. Versions of all current types of weapons would need to be included. Specifically, automatics, revolvers, concealable, and non-concealable weapons would need to be included. The test groups would need to demonstrate virtually 100% compliance for the last 80% of the test period.

Long-term testing would need to be at least five years after weapons/ammunition is available and be a demonstrable success by at least meeting the aforementioned conditions. Before full implementation, weapons and ammuntion would need to have the same approximate availability and price as before implementation. I would think that it should be 2% or less and include plain ball ammo. Comparison could be 2004 prices plus inflation.

Would this be a practical and reasonable way to proceed if their stated intent is their real intent?

Posted by: Harry at June 5, 2005 01:52 PM

Sorry to all the folks out in Calli but I really wish that the firearms/ammunition industry as a whole would follow the lead of Ronnie Barrett. They need to refuse to do any business of any sort with any municipality in California and just write the whole state off.

No ammo sales, no weapon sales, no parts, no accessories, no repair work, and cancel all warranties. Not another bullet, gun or even a screw for any State, County, City or Town agency that has CA in their address.

Posted by: Mordwyn at June 7, 2005 12:52 AM
Note: Comments close down on posts after seven days and then
the comment input form disappears.

Your comments are welcome. You don't need to enter a URL and you don't need a "valid" email address, either. Note though that MT Blacklist is installed to flag suspiciously spam-like strings. Unfortunately, because of the bastard spammers, the strings "google.com" and "yahoo.com" (even in your email address) are currently banned as well. So are strings such as "cialis" (a common spam) which rules out words such as "socialism". Try putting a hyphan in a word like that.

By Golly, you're reading an archived post. Click Here to head to the main page and read current stuff...



Into science fiction? Check out my group blog novel, Colony: Alchibah.
See the reader's guide there for first-timer tips.