Democrats Debate: The Gun Control Stuff
I didn’t watch the debate because MSNBC is a leftist, liberal biased network and I see no reason to let lefty, liberal newscasters steer the debate. I’ll wait till they all agree to debate on the Fox Network. . . Oops! Sorry, for a moment there I thought I was part of the loony Kos Krowd.
Anyway, From the transcript:
MODERATOR (Brian Williams): … Senator Clinton, a question for you: Did the government — did any role that federal government plays fail those students at Virginia Tech?
CLINTON: Yes.
You know, I remember very well when I accompanied Bill to Columbine after that massacre and met with the family members of those who had been killed and talked with the students, and feeling that we had to do more to try to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and of the mentally unstable.
And during the Clinton administration, that was a goal — not to, in any way, violate people’s Second Amendment rights, but to try to limit access to people who should not have guns.
CLINTON: Unfortunately, we saw the tragedy unfold at Virginia Tech. We now know that the background check system didn’t work, because certainly this shooter, as he’s called, had been involuntarily committed as a threat to himself and others. And, yet, he could walk in and buy a gun.
MODERATOR: Governor Richardson, you are currently, if our research is correct, the NRA’s favorite presidential candidate declared in either party, based on their rating system.
Did anything about the massacre at Virginia Tech make you rethink any part of your position on guns?
RICHARDSON: The first point I’d want to make is my sincerest condolences to the families of those loved ones that perished. It was an unspeakable tragedy.
You’re right, Brian. I’m a Westerner. I’m a governor of New Mexico. The Second Amendment is precious in the West. But I want to just state for the record, a vast, vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding.
This is an issue that deals with two fundamental problems in our system right now.
RICHARDSON: The first is mental illness. We should ensure that all federal and state initiatives deal with making sure those with mental illnesses cannot get a gun.
Secondly, I was for instant background checks. We have to make sure that those background checks are state and local. States are properly funded to be able to detect those problems.
Lastly, in this country, mental health is not treated the same as other illnesses. There should be mental health parity in this country and we don’t have it and we should finally find ways to ensure that our schools get the help that they need to detect these mentally ill patients.
MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor.
We are over on time.
MODERATOR: And because our producers are learning about the consumption of time, we have our first “show of hands” question tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
How many of you, in your adult lifetime, have had a gun in the house?
One — Senator Gravel, Senator Biden, Senator Dodd, Governor Richardson, Congressman Kucinich.
Thank you very much.
Senator Biden, the kind of flip side of the question I just asked Senator Clinton: What could the federal government have done to save those kids at Virginia Tech?
BIDEN: Shotgun — not pistol.
What they could have done is two things. One, I was the fellow who, in the so-called Biden crime bill years ago to put 100,000 cops on the street that the Clinton administration made work incredibly well — the first assault weapons ban was passed.
I’ve worked with law enforcement for the past 30 years, deal with getting around with armor-piercing bullets, waiting periods, et cetera.
BIDEN: But the one thing that’s clear: We should not have let the assault weapons ban lapse.
Number two, we should close this so-called gun show loophole, so you can’t go into a gun show and buy a gun that you couldn’t buy walking into a gun shop.
Number three, I agree with everyone here; we have let the country down in the way in which we have not focused on mental illness. We should know that when you sent a kid to college, you’re going to be safe at college…
*Yawn* Pretty tepid. AWB comes up, of course. No chance for Obama to restate that he would ban all semi-automatic guns. Hillary didn’t raise her hand when asked if, as an adult, there was ever a gun in her home. I don’t believe that for a second.
Most of the focus is on closing the mental illness loophole and that’s fine with me.
It’s clear that aside from Biden being his usual blow-hard self, the Democratic candidates still realize how divisive gun control is. It’s also clear that Richardson is the only one of the bunch with any credence as supporting the right to keep and bear arms.
Hmmm, Williams didn’t give the political juggernaut a chance to state his position, though!
17 Responses to “Democrats Debate: The Gun Control Stuff”
on 27 Apr 2007 at 6:14 am # Keith
Jeff,
Be careful with that “mental health loophole” the deffinition of a personality disorder could very rapidly change to include support for the second ammendment.
remember that well into the 80’s, kids were being “treated” in mental hospitals for “homosexuality”
and during the cold war, both sides psyciatric assocs. considdered sympathy for the other side as a symptom of schizophrenia…
be very careful
on 27 Apr 2007 at 8:22 am # Keith
thehomegunsmith.comJust incase anyone thinks that I’m being un-necessarily panicky over “mental health” just follow the link and see what the trick-psyclists made of a fellow Brit’s interest in guns and gun rights.
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/readthis.shtml
Keith
on 27 Apr 2007 at 8:36 am # Keith
OK, sorry, the psyclists gave him something of an OK but the rest is pretty chilling reading.
Jeff, Why does it put the link at the start of the comment when it is posted? it wasn’t there when I sent it.
Keith
on 27 Apr 2007 at 8:53 am # Diamondback
“Yes gentleman, we have determined that an unhealthy interest in guns is a sign of mental instability.” If that hasn’t already been uttered by some mental health group, I’ll eat my hat!
on 27 Apr 2007 at 9:15 am # Jeff Soyer
some kind of bug inserts the person’s URL (if given) into the front of the post. I haven’t upgraded WordPress yet.
on 27 Apr 2007 at 9:35 am # GHG
When Hilary was First Lady weren’t there armed Secret Service agents posted to her home? Wouldn’t that qualify as guns in her home during her adult life?
on 27 Apr 2007 at 10:01 am # 1894C
dsgl.orgdoctorsagainsthandguninjury.orgpsych.orgaap.orgThis mental health evaluations thing should send a chill down the spine of every gunowner!
The medical profession is generally virulently ANTI GUN!
One notable exception is:
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
http://www.dsgl.org/Articles/APA.htm
But the general consensus follows a decidedly anti gun bias.
As evidence see the following.
Doctors Against Handgun Injury
“Research has repeatedly shown that depression is a key precursor to suicide, but more recent studies explore the strong relationship between the presence of guns in the home and suicide.”
Position Paper on Gun Control
http://www.doctorsagainsthandguninjury.org/position3.shtml
Note DAHI member groups are:
Member Organizations
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American College of Emergency Physicians
American College of Physicians/American
Society of Internal Medicine
American College of Preventive Medicine
American College of Surgeons
American Medical Women’s Association
Eastern Association for the Surgery of Trauma
National Hispanic Medical Association
National Medical Association
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Society of Critical Care Medicine
Funded by the Joyce Foundation
American Psychiatric Association
“The American Psychiatric Association recommends that strong controls be placed on the availability of all types
of firearms to private citizens.”
Position Statement on Homicide Prevention and Gun Control 1993
http://www.psych.org/public_info/libr_publ/position.cfm
American Academy of Pediatrics
“Advice to parents:
The best way to keep your children safe from injury or death from guns is to NEVER have a gun in the home.
* Do not purchase a gun, especially a handgun.
* Remove all guns present in the home. ”
http://www.aap.org/family/tipp-firearms.htm
These are but a few examples, there are MANY others!
Letting these groups determine who can own firearms is folly of the highest order!
on 27 Apr 2007 at 10:39 am # chrisb
We all know the AWB would have prevented the VT killings…
on 27 Apr 2007 at 11:25 am # Keith
the only suicide figures influenced by firearms availability is suicide using a gun, the total suicide figures for the poulation are unchanged.
Unfortunately a literature review submitted to the Cullen Enq following the 1997 shootings in Scotland made the mistake (or lie) of claiming firearms influenced overall suicide figures, while the literature quoted generally failed to control for gun availability, or did so indirectly, for example by sales of “guns & Ammo magazine”.
got that from john lott’s books…
we were discussing suicide at work a couple of days back, as there has just been a suicide in this area of Ireland by a partially sited man, whose wife went with him and helped kill their two small children first. I’m not sure how, but it wasn’t a gun.
Recent examples which came up in the conversation and in in the same area and involving people known to my colleagues, included a woman who had walked into the sea with 2 young children (all died), and a woman who had set fire to herself in a car (but was “rescued” to survive in pain).
non of them needed a gun (and neither do anorexics…).
just a question, has anyone ever tried to get medical attention for someone who is suicidally depressed? I spent all night in casualty once with a friend, the tric psyclist only called them on their mobile 3 days later!
Keith
on 27 Apr 2007 at 11:44 am # MuzzleBlast
I’m in agreement with Kieth and his admonition to “… be very careful.” We already have a(n Unconstitutional) law that deprives one of their right to arms if a restraining order with their name on it is filed - certainly not Due Process by any stretch of the imagination. However, one can imagine what may be next.
Question: Is an Iraq vet returning home who seeks assistance with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) mentally fit to purchase a firearm? How about Road Rage?
Think people.
Muzzle Blast
on 27 Apr 2007 at 1:25 pm # KCSteve
Interesting how they bring up the AWB - which would have had zero affect on either gun used and the Yard Sale Loophole (I insist on using the correct name for it) which was also not involved in this case.
on 27 Apr 2007 at 3:52 pm # Rick C
“We all know the AWB would have prevented the VT killings… ”
Well, if Obama becomes President, and follows thru with his old campaign plank to ban all semiautomatics….
on 27 Apr 2007 at 7:45 pm # joated
Hillary has no need to own a gun. She and her hubby are protects 24/7 by Secret Service agents as are all ex-Presidents and their immediate families.
on 28 Apr 2007 at 8:42 am # Paul
You want a gun? You are sick, Government paid universal health care doctor says so.
Next!
on 28 Apr 2007 at 9:09 am # Susan
teenscreen.orgteenscreentruth.compsychsearch.net”did any role that federal government plays fail those students at Virginia Tech? ”
Give me a break. What kind of question is that?
I’d like to give the correct answer to the candidates - No. The correct response is just plain no.
“Lastly, in this country, mental health is not treated the same as other illnesses. There should be mental health parity in this country and we don’t have it and we should finally find ways to ensure that our schools get the help that they need to detect these mentally ill patients. ”
Yikes!
The whole mental illness part scares the peejeebers out of me - there’s already that group - Teen Screen (http://www.teenscreen.org/) that seeks to “screen” teens for mental illness - and then medicate them. (there are currently 4 school districts in New Mexico that use this program)
See : http://www.teenscreentruth.com/ and
http://www.psychsearch.net/teenscreen.html
Those wiley politicians - they can actually pretend to protect a right, while advocating the denial of another. Crafty.
on 28 Apr 2007 at 10:09 pm # Billll
Moderator:How many of you, in your adult lifetime, have had a gun in the house?
One — Senator Gravel, Senator Biden, Senator Dodd, Governor Richardson, Congressman Kucinich, Senator Clinton.
Sen Clinton: I didn’t raise my hand.
Moderator: Yes, I saw that. I just assumed you were lying.
on 30 Apr 2007 at 5:55 pm # Paul W
“Hillary didn’t raise her hand when asked if, as an adult, there was ever a gun in her home.”
That’s because she didn’t know that Bill had one to protect himself with in case Hillary caught him doing nasty things with cigars.